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Estes - Saturn-V/Apollo 11

Manufacturer:Estes

Contributed by Jim Stuckman

[Saturn V Title Bar]
[Rocket Pic]First Impressions:

10/31/98 - Tonight I had a large package waiting for me when I got home - a beta-version of the soon to be released Saturn V!The kit is packed in a NCR style box with a cool graphic of the Saturn V. The specs on the label are:

  • 43.25" Long
  • 3.938" Diameter
  • 10.2 oz weight
  • Motor D12-3
  • Est. Max Alt - 100'


[Rocket Pic]Upon opening the box, it quickly becomes apparent that this is no beginner's kit! There are 15 pages of instructions. The fins are of two-piece vacu-form construction. The quality of the vacu-form parts on this kit were OUTSTANDING! There is also a bag of plastic parts - capsule, nozzles, details, etc. The main BT is white , one piece and very light.

(11/17) Comments & Suggestions for the #2157 Saturn V:

[Parts Pic]The most difficult part of the build, IMO, is building the fins. This consists of cutting the fin halves out of the vacu-form and joining them together. Sounds pretty simple but I strongly suggest taking your time! You are instructed to trim the plastic to approx. 1/16" around the fin, then trim the root edge flush to aid in alignment. The instructions tell you to sand away 1/2 the thickness of the "flange" and then bond together. When dry, you can then sand away the excess plastic. It sounds simple but can be very time consuming. The result, however is worth the time!

[Parts Pic]The fins and wraps are from the Century kit. The capsule is from the Estes version. The "extra parts" people have asked me about seem to be the Estes plastic detail that is already molded into the Centuri wraps.

People are already talking about 29mm mounts and high power motors for this kit. I , personally would not fly this model on anything over an "E". The airframe is very light for a 4" rocket. The very thin, hollow fins are glued to a thin plastic sheet that is attached to the airframe with spray adhesive. This is not suited to high thrusting motors!

I'm currently ready to fill the seams and finish the capsule assembly. The final hurdle will be masking & painting. The kit has gone together surprisingly well and should be a fantastic representation on the Saturn V!

Estes has put together a kit that that is sure to have people wanting more projects of similar complexity and quality. 

[Saturn on Pad](12/04) Launch Lug:
I thought I better mention that the new Estes Saturn V kit requires a 1/4" launch rod! The graphic on the box is incorrect when it says 3/16". You cannot use your Estes Porta Pad with this rocket.

(12/08) Launch Lug:
I think the main reason for the change to 1/4" rod is the larger diameter rod is also normally longer. My 1 piece Stainless 3/16 X 4' rod is stiffer than the 2 part 1/4" aluminum rod that comes with the Mantis pad. The "standard" Estes maxi Rod is a bit short (approx. 3' ???) to give positive stability on a D12 launch.

The rocket flew on the suggested D12-3. Great Lift-off! Slow & smoky. Maxxed out at about 100'. Capsule chute 100% deployment but main chutes didn't have time to fully open. Recovered without damage. Keep the rocket as light as possible! Was going to try an E18-4 RMS but need to "adjust" the motor hook first!

[Rocket Pic](12/17) Tips:
Number one - KEEP IT LIGHT! If you replace the chutes, use thin mil to keep weight and bulk down. 

Don't go crazy with the detailing & painting if you want to fly it. Try a couple of light coats of paint. Every bit of extra weight saved is a plus. Save the 12 coat paint job for your Revell display model.

If you think you might ever want to fly an RMS E18 in this kit, be sure to file the front of the motor hook to clear the casing. E15-4 SU should work great!

Forget CHAD D12 staging! This rocket is slow off the rod and will weathercock in even fairly light wind. I think CHAD staging would be asking for a power prang. If you want better performance, Aerotech E15-4 or E18's are the direction to go.

If you are going to fly on higher impulse motors, make a wood core for the fins! The hollow VacuForm fins are not acceptable for F + motors as the stand.

This rocket on a D12-3 is really 100', OK maybe 110' but it sure looks great taking off!

 

Q & A

  • New Saturn V - is it a hybrid?
  • Yes - To quote a note on sheet 3: Due to the unique nature of this kit, which combines the best of both the original Estes and Centuri parts, there will be parts left over when you are finished. Do not be concerned. - Jim Stuckman
  • Today, I heard that there may only be a total of 2500 kits produced. Anyone know what the usual run on a kit like the Saturn V would be?
  • This is only a rumor but one that for the moment, I believe. I was told last weekend, that a company making the plastic parts for the kit had received an order to supply enough parts, for only 2500 kits. I honestly don't know how many companies supply parts for Estes. I assumed that the production run would be for only 2500 kits. It may only be the first of several orders. They may order in batches of 2500, I don't really know but 2500 total, was the impression that company has. - Randy
  • I am soon going to pick up and build the new Saturn V and I want to change the engine configuration to 3 C's or 5 C's. Any tips on how to do this??
  • Long Answer Here
  • Where, on the new Saturn V, is the body tube split? Is it between the 2nd and 3rd stages? Or does the Apollo capsule only pop off?
  • The separation is between the second and third stages, as it was in both the Centuri Saturn and the Estes 2001 Saturn. - R.G.
  • Construction of my SV is going good, one day into it and I'm ready to start the wraps. BUT, there is one part I can't identify a place for- Reinforcing ring, # 30281. I'm sure it's something obvious I missed.. anyone have a clue?
  • That goes on the bottom with the engines.
  • I'm not too sure what to do with the extra reinforcing ring. If you use that in the bottom of the rocket then the display stand will probably not fit. I didn't glue mine on. - C.J.
  • NOTE: this "Coupler" may be the same as the "Reinforcing Ring", I'm not sure - Nick
  • Mystery coupler. There's a BT-101 coupler left over. Someone on Essence recommended to glue this to the inside of the BT where the fairings meet. However, there seems to be some discrepancy. One description has the fairings overhanging the BT by a 1/4". But trimming the space between the fairings and then putting the coupler in there seems to defeat making the space between the fairings. Another person states that the fairings should be flush, but still use the coupler the reinforce the base. With the coupler in place, how does the nozzle assembly fit in the BT end for display purposes?
  • The extra coupler goes on the bottom of tube to further strengthen the fins. - Hans F. Shull
  • There is some discrepancy in the instructions that cannot be justified. If you cut the lower stage body wrap 3" long, then the fairings will overhang by 1/4". The extra coupler is necessary to cover the bottom of the fairings to prevent them from melting. I launched my V once and I noticed that the fairings were slightly deformed due to the heat. I plan on cutting the coupler in some way to add some backing to the fairings to prevent them from melting further. I figure that I'll cut it so that I can add a little section to each fairing to protect it and keep them flush with the ID of the BT. It depends on where you are in the construction sequence as to how you should handle the use of the extra coupler. If you already have the bodywrap cut and secured, you have only one option. - C.J.
  • On step 4, the directions describe inserting glue for the two rear centering rings but not the front one on the stuffer tube. Why not just glue all three? Seems like it would add more strength. Is this just in the interest of saving weight by using less glue? I'm considering using E15-4 engines so should I glue this?
  • On this step I thought Estes let things slide a bit myself. No glue for a forward fillet of the aft centering ring, no glue on the middle centering ring and no glue for an aft fillet of the forward centering ring. I took some runny glue and ran it close to the circumference of these rings, rammed the tube in quickly, checked the position of the aft centering ring in the BT, then spun the BT in my hands (along the roll axis) to distribute the glue centripetally (centrifugally?). I had a stick marked that told me what 3 3/8" inches was so on inserting the motor mount all I had to do was check the mark on the stick against the aft of the BT. Since the glue wants to grab *right now* I figured all I had was one chance hence the stick and mark. Worked nicely for me. - Bob Fortune
  • The reason you don't want to glue the forward centering ring is that it will cause the body tube to pinch inward. The resulting pinch from the bottom and center centering rings are hidden by the two middle wrappers, but the forward one is not. Having filled in this halo a few times in a number of Centuri kits, I would suggest using epoxy when gluing the forward centering ring into place. - Bob Craddock
  • That is really interesting! I never knew that. I never knew that. I just went and checked for myself by sideliting the tube and yes indeedy wherever the centering ring was glued there was a halo as well. - Bob Fortune
  • The instructions say to mount the motor mount assembley so the rear centering ring is 3 3/8" from the rear of the rocket. Is this correct?
  • To fly on D12-3's, its weight has to be kept to a minimum, so to keep the CG far enough forward for stable flight without adding more nose weight, the MMT needs to be recessed quite a bit. If you're going to use Aerotech E's, or larger, you can afford to move the MMT aft and compensate with extra nose weight. But the you'll lose the ability to install the engine nozzles for display, unless you jig up some kind of plug-in tubes so you can plug the nozzles into the aftmost CR. - Art Fuldodger
  • It's correct. the depth into the body is that long because your making room for a removable showpeice insert. Specifically the 5 engine bells. They are for show purposes only and actually obstruct the true rocket motor so must be removable but still be able to support the rocket. hence a 3" spacer. - P. Flanagan
  • On step 5, which one of the rings is the actual 3rd stage lower shoulder? My kit has two...one would have been the "middle" stiffener in the old Estes kit. The short one is 25mm, the long one is 35mm. Which one is it, please??
  • Well, I used the 35mm as the III stage lower shoulder!! Dont know if it was the right choice since no mention of which to use is made in the instructions! - Don
  • I think I ended up using the longer one as main body coupler and the shorter as reinforcing ring. I used the reinforcing ring to prevent the upper staged from slipping down inside the lower stage. - A.C.
  • On step 5d there seems to be a appreciable difference in the third stage body tube and the ring/main coupler assembly when trying to put these together. Anyone else have this problem? I'm thinking about wrapping a thin line of masking tape to the tube to build it up to the ring hole size. Anybody else have to do this?
  • My tube just slipped thru both rings, the fit was perfect. Maybe you got an undersized 3rd stage tube? You may want to finish step 7 before proceeding, to see if the LM/SM section fits properly into the 3rd stage tube. -Vince
  • I think I ended up using the longer one as main body coupler and the shorter as reinforcing ring. I used the reinforcing ring to prevent the upper staged from slipping down inside the lower stage. - A.C.
  • On step 6, when you are supposed to glue the 3rd stage wrap on the main body tube coupler, do you glue it so it is flush with the coupler or do you overlap it?
  • Haven't gotten that far yet. But the way I see it, you'll want to have a slight overlap so a shoulder is produced. - D.H.
  • Third stage. Silly question, but there's no mention of gluing this to the second stage. I assume that's the MO, but is there any reason why I wouldn't want to glue this in place?
  • Glue it. - C.J.
  • Step 11 - Fin Shrouds - I test fitted the shrouds to find that they do not fit very well. On the wrap that they are to attach to there are flat triangular areas that I assumed that the shrouds would fit inside of. If I attempt to make the shroud fit this space the lower part of the shroud hangs off of the bottom of the rocket by about 1". If I try to raise the shroud to be flush with the bottom of the rocket the top of the shroud extends beyond the wrap by about 1" and the shroud is now sitting over the ribbing on the wrap. Can anyone tell me what the problem is here?
  • I don't know about this. On my model (I'm at about the same step) the shrouds, when even with the bottom of the tube, protrude less than .25 inch above the wrap. This is as it is shown in the instructions and the shroud is evenly spaced within the "flat" triangular area. It certainly doesn't extend anthing like 1" above the wrap. The lower wrap is supposed to be 3 inches wide.... - F.T.
  • Those should fit so that they hang past the bottom of the BT101. I talked To Matt Steele about this when I beta tested the Saturn V, to also make sure I attached them properly. They should overhang a bit, off the bottom of the tube. - Greg
  • I also was having trouble with the fin/shroud placement. A quick call to Estes fixed it so I thought I would share it with all. The lower wrap should be set at 3 1/2" from bottom of tube NOT 3"! This places the bottom of shroud even with bottom of the tube. They do not overhang the tube at all!!! The root end of fin glues to tube and is further supported by shroud. Then you can make the cut outs between the shrouds as stated in plans. - Hans F. Shull
  • It says cut the wrap 3" long. A post on this site says to make it 3 1/2" long. I measured my finished Saturn V and I found that the correct distance from the top of the lowest body wrap to the end of the fairings is about 3 1/4" If there is enough room on the plastic material to make it 3 1/4" long, then that would be the way that I would do it. If not, cut the wrap 3" long and glue it to the body tube 3 1/4" from the top to the end of the body tube. The fill in with a 1/4" strip of extra plastic that is glued to the very end of the rocket. Once that is done you can proceed as normal. It wouldn't hurt to double check by using rubber bands to hold the body wrap in place and cut out a fairing for a test fit. However, I believe that the difference is related to the hybrid. I don't think that it is possible to do what the instructions say to do if the drawings in the instructions are correct. They use 3" and, after the fin fairings are on, they show a diagram on how to cut away the excess BT between the fairings and the diagram shows the BT flush with the ends of the fairings. This is not possible. - C.J.
  • - cut out a shroud before cutting the lower body wrap and use the shroud to cut the wrap to the proper length. I wound up using almost the entire available length.
    - Before you apply body wraps, tape a piece of 320 sandpaper to the BT and use to sand shrouds to fit
    - Glue the fins to the wrap before you attach the shrouds. After filleting the fins, fit and glue the shrouds over the fins. - Jeff Lefstin
  • Step 11 - The fairings are SUPPOSED to stick out behind the model? How much?
  • Yes, the fairings are supposed to trail the tube. By about 1/4 inch. If you want to see how it looked on the real thing then go check out the Apollo Saturn Reference Page - Randy
  • The instructions show the fin shrouds even with the bottom of the body tube and protruding slightly above the body wrap. I was mistaken in my earlier post! After actually trying to fit the shrouds I discovered that they do protrude below the body tube about a quarter inch. This leaves the bottom of the shrouds unsupported and susceptible to damage, doesn't it? I will probably reinforce this area with a body tube extension of some sort... F.T.
  • I am having problems getting the body wraps to adhere properly to the body tubes using the adhesive recommended in the instructions. The wraps don't seem to bond very well, particularly at the seams. Did anyone else have this problem, and how did you get around it?
  • I used 3M 77 to adhere my wraps. I believe that's what the instructions called for and it worked fairly well. Thankfully I was able to reposition each wrap at least 10 or 15 times as that's what it took to get the lines and corrugations matched up . - Bob Fortune
  • Wraps take some patience in general, too. My trick is to lay wraps unglued, unwrap one end while holing the rest down, glue under the loose end, hold down with tape (for plastic) or rubber bands (for cardstock), and when dry, do the rest. Your want to have your tape ready (stuck to the loose end or strips hanging off the edge of the table) or your rubber bands ready (around the tube adjacent to the wrap). - Peter Alway
  • I used 3M-77 also, and once the wraps were in place I took thick hot stuff and put under the connecting edges, then placed rubberbands around the body wrap (at least two) top and bottom..this gave a pretty good bond to the wrap I left the rubberbands on until a good set was made on the thick CA. - Don
  • I also had trouble with the spray adhesive recommended for the wraps. I ended up glueing the seams with tube plastic cement. - Tom Hail
  • I found that the easiest way to glue the body wraps on was to glue all but 1" from the joint using medium CA and then finish the edges with contact cement. That worked very well. - C.J.
  • Are these vacu-form fins really going to take the abuse of landing tail first?
  • Well, the fins are my biggest question. I have an old Centuri Saturn V that was built over 20 years ago. It has the exact same fins, but, the fins are mounted through the shroud and to the body tube. The result is a small, scale-like fin, and a VERY strong fin. Mine has survived over 20 years of flights, and some pretty rough landings, but NEVER a broken fin. To make it stable, clear oversize fins were slipped over the small scale fins for flight.
    It would appear from the new Estes instructions that you glue the fin to the shroud, and just push the bottom of the fin through the shroud.  The result, a larger exposed fin (almost the exact same size as the fin in the 2001 kit) but a MUCH weaker fin attachment. I imagine even a soft landing would break a fin and/or shroud. -Rich
  • You can't make TTW fins on this model without moving the the motor mount tube. It is 3" inside the model. Moving the motor mount back further with drastically change CG needs to be taken in account. - A.C.
  • Do those tiny fins really keep the rocket stable?
  • If you're building stock and according to instructions, they're fine. - Randy
  • I am planning on duplicating the fins with balsa, is there something else I should consider?
  • Shape those balsa fins and then cover with that (100%) aluminum foil tape (like the Air Conditioning guys use) - burnish down with ScotchBrite pad - and either leave that way (close to 'titanium' look) or just paint with some Model Master 'Titanium' paint. - John Cato
  • Has anyone tried a method by where the four outer F-1 engines stay in place for flying, and somehow only the center is removed for flight. I envision a flared tube to direct the thrust past the 4 remaining engines, avoiding meltdown, while improving overall scale appearance. How would this affect CG?
  • That's an interesting realism idea. With care, and just a little weight in the nc, I'm sure it can be done but you would need to carefully weigh the completed and fully prepped assembly, to see if a single D, will still get up there enough for a safe recovery. - Randy
  • How accurate does the wrap cut line have to be if it is intended to be filled anyway? Or is this transition from wrap to BT intended to be a distinct line. In other words, do the corrugations blend smoothly into the BT or do they sharply end forming a distinct step?
  • You'll need to cut it as accurate as possible, why make your fill job more difficult by cutting inaccurately It is not intended to be a distinct line. Where one corrugation ends, the other begins and the gap between them is a function of how well you were able to put the wrap around the BT. There may be a slight gap to be filled, but no step. - Chip Jenkins
  • Is there any need to soak (or attempt to soak) the cardstock LEM reduction wrap with thin CA for strength and resistance to puckers?
  • I did not see (upon completion) any need to soak the cardstock. Mine has no puckers and I can not see any way for any puckers to form unless it undergoes some abnormal abuse. - Chip Jenkins
  • The instructions call for a cradle of the ejected upper assembly. Has anyone cradled the lower as well or is this overkill?
  • Overkill. The only reason to cradle the upper section is to protect the escape tower. - Chip Jenkins
  • It calls for the "tunnels" to be made of wood and vacu-form. This indicates numerous transitions between wood and plastic and lots of joints that need filling. Might it be easier to remove the vacu-form "tunnel" from the wrap and construct all the wood/vacu-form "tunnels" of bass (this assumes one keeps the tunnel orientation lines intact) and glue as one piece?
  • If you have the skills to build this rocket, the transitions from wood to vacu-form do not present much of a problem. IMHO, it is easier to fill those gaps than it is (to create a larger problem by trying) to cut the existing vacu-form tunnels off. - Chip Jenkins
  • I think you'd be much better off doing as you suggest, but instead of basswood, use styrene stock. - Brett
  • Regarding painting the corrugations black: Is there a way to prefinish these parts before installation? Any suggestions on masking the corrugations?
  • I would recommend liquid masking film for masking off the corrugations. Just brush it on, let it dry, scored it along the desired lines with a sharp exacto knife, then peel off the excess. Parafilm M or even frisket paper might be able to make it down into the corrugations if you are very careful, but it's hard to beat liquid masking for fitting into concavities. Get it at any hobby shop that caters to plastic model construction.- Brett
  • Over in rec.models.scale someone had the suggestion to use black decals to get the sharp lines need on the corrugations. I haven't tried it yet, but they seemed to think it was a good idea. - Randy
  • [reference comment above] This is good for the relatively shallow corrugations of the embossed cardstock wraps of the Earlier Estes kits, but if the Saturn V vacuforms are anything like the Saturn IB vacuforms, conforming to the corrugations would be a real bear, even with solve-a-set or other decal-softening solutions. - Peter Alway
  • What primer/paint should be used on the plastic parts since someone mentioned Krylon deforms the corrugations?
  • Any acrylic will hypothetically work, but I think Testor's solvent-based paint is the way to go - Brett
  • The trick is to apply the primer sparingly (no matter what brand) until you have built up a couple coats that will protect the plastic from the solvents in the top coats. I don't remember what brand I used on my Estes Saturn 1-B (same vacuum form wraps) but it was probably Plasti-Cote (sp?) grey automotive sanding primer (what I use for almost everything). - Jim K
  • What I intend to use is white pigmented shellac. Since it is just shellac, alcohol and pigment it won't hurt the vacu-form ( I tested it tonight on the plastic), sticks like crazy, dries in 15 minutes, builds fairly quickly, covers and sands well. Since it is almost a matte finish (more of an eggshell sheen) it will probably look fine as the finish coat as well. An added bonus is that it also acts as a barrier coat to the solvents in the black finish. I'll probably mask the dang thing and use a rattle can satin black finish. The kind of pigmented shellac I use, made by Zinsser, has a warmer cast to it than straight stark white which might look nice as well. It's hard to tell how white were the white (lots of shades of white in the world) of the originals.  By the way, it smells good too. - Bob Fortune
  • Painting:
  • I sprayed the whole thing with white (no problem here) Then I attempted to mask off all of the necessary sections in order to paint the black. Most of it went ok but, I had some trouble with areas that were not taped close enough to some of the details. Other areas allowed black to get in where I did not want it to go. To fix those areas, I got my hands on some standard Testor's Black, White and Silver paint. After I was done, it was impressive! - C.J.
  • Could someone tell me the center of gravity (CG) of an Estes Saturn V prepped to fly with a D12-3? I'm modifying mine for the heavier E 15-4, and I want to get the thing balanced correctly.
  • I'm pretty sure that the AT motors weight almost the same as the Estes engines. I even beefed up the CRs with some ply and epoxy and I didn't need to add any nose weight with an AT E30. - B.H.
  • The SU E15-4 isn't any heavier than a D12-3. - T.B.
  • I just measured the CG on my completed Saturn V. The CG came in at 21" from the tip of the Command Module. - C.C.
  • Mine measures 21.5" from the tip of the CM. I probably used more paint on the upper part of mine. - M.P.
  • I left the Command Module nose cone off so that after construction I could epoxy in some weight. Since I was only going to fly this bird on an AeroTech E15, I added enough weight to move the CG forward 1 inch, so now it sits at 20" from the tip of the CM. I flew it first on a E15-7 and after the thrust cut out and the rocket arced over at apogee, it started falling flat (parallel to the ground) then the ejection charge finally fired, and the bird was recovered safely. The next flight was on an E15-4 and the ejeciton charge fired right at apogee for a perfect recovery. - C.C.
  • Has anyone tried recovery of the bottom half of the rocket in SLING fashion as in the upper half?
  • Not that I ever heard but with 2 chutes, it isn't necessary. Mine lands flat on the bottom. There's no danger of breaking a fin. - Randy
Suggestions/Comments
  • Ok all together now....."upgrade the motor mount"!! IMHO it should have been a NCR kit with Dark Star power! Then we could have made some small mods and put in a 29 mm RMS! - James Dean Cory
  • A cluster of 3 Estes C5-3 engines. Lots of lift-off thrust. Not so much sustaining thrust that it "cones" (like a Maxi V-2 on an F100). Long burn time. 28.5 Newton-seconds of total impulse. 28.5 Newton-seconds of total impulse. Reliable ejection charge (compared to D12s). Probably require a tiny amount of nose weight or a slight engine mount move fwd to offset extra weight (unless the kit has a good margin of stability to start). C5-3 engines are available in bulk packs (cheap). - Fred Shecter
  • After building my first one, I suddenly realized that in my haste to get it in the air, I had forgotten to clone it, as much as possible. Take a few minutes as you go and at each step, clone all of it that you can. It will make repairing any flight damage much easier. For me, the only thing I have a recurring problem with, is the upper reduction wraps. You can make a few extras wraps and shrouds, out of the poster paper kids use for school projects. - Randy
  • You might want to get a set or two of decals from Tom. I used the ones he made for me on my last Saturn V and they did much better than the 6 year old decals that came with it. I know the new kits will have good decals but you might be able to use a few extras of those as well, after you fly it a little. Also, get some balsa and clone the fins. - Randy
    • Tom Prestia -- proprietor of Tango Papa Decals at BakerTom@aol.com.
  • If your going to fly it, don't permanently install the escape tower. - Randy
    • Another option is to add a 'fifth strut' from the capsule to the 'tower' proper -- this being right on the longitudinal axis (i.e. center) of the vehicle. Drill a hole into the front tip of the capsule and into the base of the 'tower'. Make this strut out of 0.040" (+-) piano wire - glued securely. When painted with the rest of the capsule/tower, it almost disappears - but *really* stiffens up that LES. Yet another option (for the scale purists) is to simply replace the four (natural) struts to the LES with piano wire - and fit the cross-bracing (now robbed from the original). A lot more work - but even stronger. Either one will work just fine. But, then so does doing nothing - as the 'stock' tower can generally handle 'flight forces' just fine. Its the ground handling that typically does these things in.- John.
  • It has been pointed out that the ejection gasses coming out of the BT-50 stuffer tube into the large volume of the BT-101 body tube can sometimes just "push aside" the parachutes & wadding, instead of pushing them out of the rocket. A number of packing techniques have been suggested to reduce this problem, including placing the top chute below the others, to pull them out. My idea is to add a BT-80 stuffer tube on top of the upper centering ring, and extending forward to within 1/8" or so of the bottom of the upper stage's bulkhead. This way, the laundry is less likely to get pushed out of the way, and more likely to get pushed out of the rocket. Shock cords could still be anchored to the BT-101, keeping them out of the way. I've never had a chute ejection failure in my Silver Comet.... Any obvious "gotchas" with this idea? Has anyone else tried this or something similar? - Rick Dickinson
    • The best way to deploy the chutes in a Saturn V is to use wadding that's stiff and almost the same size as the bt. My favorite was the wadding that came with the old Cox kits. It was about 1/4" thick and looked like padded bandage gauze. Since it's no longer available you can substitute a crisp lettuce leaf just as well. If you build it as a cluster, then the chutes will be blown out anyway by using multiple ejections. - Randy
  • Lazy man's scale accuracy tips: The camera targets at the top of the S-II stage, and half of the ullage motors on the interstage wrap were not present on Apollo 11 (the model is based on an unflown integration vehicle). Therefore, - leave off the eight camera target decals (the little crosshairs) - don't paint mask off the ullage motors in the black sections of the interstage wrap before painting the roll pattern. They are extremely difficult to mask anyways. Leave them black and pretend they're not there. - Jeff Lefstin
  • I've seen folks posting about internal launch lugs. My only concern is wont this create a vent for the ejection gasses? Estes D's are not known for their ejection kick and there is already a large area to pressurize. In order to run the launch rod internally there therefore needs to be 1/4" holes venting both out the top and thru the bottom. Will this allow for ejection? I'll likely go w/ an E15, but if I choose the D12 will it eject? Good question. I'd think that the small hole for the launch rod would not create much of a path for the ejection gasses as compared to popping the nose off, at least if the ejected section fits securely but not tightly. I tried my own version of an internal launch lug configuration in the model I'm (still) constructing. It caused a few problems with the 2nd and 3rd stage, mostly running the rod through the transition wrap, but nothing insurmountable. Anyway, you can take a look at the stuff I wrote about it (with a couple photos) - David W. Grumbine, Jr.


Other Saturn V Links - 


    Flight Log

    DateRocket NameMotor(s)AltitudeNotes
    1992-07-18Moe Bertrand's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-0/D12-0/D12-5- Perfect first launch of this modified Estes to 'CHAD' staging. Worked great, and with an unpainted...
    1992-07-18 Moe Bertrand's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-0/D12-0/D12-5- Perfect second launch of this modified Estes to 'CHAD' staging. Worked great, and with an...
    1992-07-18Moe Bertrand's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Recovered nicely.
    1998-05-06Tim Collins's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Absolutely fantastic, dramatic takeoff and perfect ejection and parachute deployment at around 100...
    1999-10-02Moe Bertrand's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-0/D12-0/D12-5- 3rd flight of this Saturn V mod. Spool-type booster fits in lower body for the 2nd stage; 4-finned...
    2000-01-01Dan Schneider's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F24-4- Perfect flight. Glorious!
    2000-08-19Dave Kress's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Fine flight - all 3 chutes opened.
    2001-06-17Joe Cacciatore's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Engine pod ejected, low engine power, not a stable flight, became a lawn dart.
    2001-06-24Jeff Brundt's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- A nice straight boost with no arc. The E18 is perfect for this rocket. One of the 24 nylon chutes...
    2001-09-01Tim Burger's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Good first flight, just like I remember from Scout Camp. Just enough power - wouldn't do this in...
    2001-12-02Joe Cacciatore's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Rocket was repaired after being a lawn dart, perfect flight. Engine pod was glued in to prevent...
    2002-08-17Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- Absolutely perfect flight. Slow, impressive (and noisy) liftoff and a nearly vertical flight....
    2002-08-23Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- Beautiful, impressive flight - definitely a crowd favorite.
    2002-08-24Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- Good flight and safe recovery, but the late ejection (below 100 feet) had me sweating bullets.
    2002-08-31Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- Yet another beautiful flight. Snapped a fin off on touchdown which was a blessing in disquise. The...
    2002-09-07Tim Burger's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Lots of weather vane in the wind for a long arcing flight. Came out OK.
    2002-10-05Tim Burger's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Contest flight - ouch, busted the excape tower.
    2002-11-02Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- The ejection charge must have been a little weak - the upper portion recovered nicely, but the...
    2002-12-07Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- First flight since repairs after lawn dart episode. Strange weathercock off the rod, but otherwise...
    2003-04-26Larry Zeilmann's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11G64-7- Forgot to turn on the Magnetic Apogee Detector. Motor back up saved the rocket late and stripped...
    2003-05-24Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F40-4- It started out beautifly - magnificent liftoff and climb to about 500 feet, then the ejection...
    2003-06-15Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E18-4- Burned by the mysterious bonus delay - ejection fired about one second after impact. The only good...
    2003-10-04Larry Zeilmann's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11G64- first MAD device deployment burnt through one main shock cord good recovery
    2003-10-26Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F52-5- Nice flight - just some minor touchdown damage. But the F52 is not a good match to this rocket -...
    2004-01-01Jason Lenentine's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F24-4400 feet My first launch with an AT RMS motor. Beautiful flyout to ~400 feet. Love the noise, plume, and...
    2004-05-02Tim Doll's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F40-4- Very nice flight (except that it caught a thermal and drifted into a farm where I had to climb a...
    2004-05-08Jason Lenentine's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F21-4- This was a classic textbook flight. Absolutely perfect. Straight boost and it really got going...
    2004-07-11Joe Cacciatore's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Great, straight flight, slow take off, lands close. not bad at all.
    2004-07-16Jason Lenentine's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F21-4- 32 minutes past the hour...Liftoff of Apollo 11. 35 years ago today, Apollo 11 launched to the...
    2004-07-31Dana Ryman's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Maiden voyage was almost perfect! Very soft landing even with one of the 24 chutes tangling a bit....
    2005-09-17Al Farrar's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D12-3- Nose tipped over at about 50 ft. One spin and then splat! ejection at ground level. Will repair...
    2007-02-11Scott Grissman's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E15-4- Great flight! Launched off of a 6 ft rod and rocket flew striaght as a arrow. Perfect engine for...
    2007-06-02Ross Ohmen's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11E15-4- Flew my Saturn 5 on an AT E15-4. This poor motor lit badly, and didn't provide enough thrust to...
    2007-07-01Scott Grissman's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11D15-4- Great flight. Not a scratch on it. Perfect
    2008-03-02Russell Garcia's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F40-4- Good flight, Aerotech motor very impressive, parachute did not deploy, bad ejection charge or...
    2008-03-29Russell Garcia's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F40-4- Great flight, solved ejection problem by adding more powder to the ejection charge. Plastic LES...
    2008-04-06Russell Garcia's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11F40-4- Good flight, good recovery, added too much Triple 7 to the ejection charge though. Moderate damage...
    2008-05-26Russell Garcia's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11G64-4- Good flight, very loud and went high. Landed in water. There was an irrigated farm field, should...
    2009-03-21Russell Garcia's Estes Saturn-V/Apollo 11G64-4- Good flight. Rocket showing wear and tear of flying on larger than recommended motor.

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